I'm sorry, but what does that have to do with atheism?

Because Atheists only care about pleasure?

That isn't true. Again, you are judging people what you know nothing about. Which, again, isn't very Christian of you.

Money buys security, it buys experiences, it buys fun, it buys indulgence without consequence, it buys time.

You can meet the love of you life, a lovely woman with a homely face... then overhaul her.

It's simple. Money can't buy love, but it can make it.

Then again, you can be happy without money. Ie. I wouldn't be happy in a mansion.... I'd be happy in a small cottage style house. I also wonder if maybe the homeless might be very happy, and often I find myself wanting that freedom from stuff and things.

That is all you know. And yet you threw around a whole bunch of accusations at me.

I resented that. I'm sorry for calling you names, but I felt attacked by nonsense. It infuriates me to have to waste my time knowing I'm not going to change my mind, and you're not going to change your mind. So why the fuck don't we both shut up?

You can't blame a child for their mother's actions.

I conceded that someone is innocent until proven guilty. That's why he was found innocent, because they could not prove him guilty in the courts. That doesn't make it true.

Our opinion differs, but that doesn't mean I'm wrong. And now we may never know.

But don't think I'm blind. I didn't read the tabloids or watch the trial. I didn't think he was amazing or a genius or an icon either. I judged him as a man and found him to be a psycho. That doesn't make me blind.

Obviously.

But you've insulted me quite a lot. I've been having to defend my opinion with facts, while you with opinions and I resent your intollerance. You insulted my opinion based on a bullshit websites and no actual knowledge of situations at organic free range farms. When I grew up on one and worked for years to stop factory farming. So bascally all you have is your opinion which you used to label me as a user and as a whole bunch of nasty things.

That is certainly not what you've been saying.

When I said, "If your opinion differs, that's fine. But I love and respect animals."

You said, "That's just a difference of opinions.

I am an abolitionist. I am against the use of animals, both human and non-human. I campaign for equal rights and compassion for all sentient creatures. That's how I'm different."

Thinking you're all holier than thou. Shove it.

How is everything you just said not speculation?

He had books of photographs of nude young boys. Art or not. You seemed to miss that scrap of information.

They have an entire taped tour of his mansion. You can see the secret rooms full of ridiculous stuff. I know he did it. More than a few times.

I'm not celebrating his death. But if I were molested by someone, I'd be glad they were dead. So I'm happy for his victims.

Do I not write English????

I already explained that the jury has to abide by the laws of the court. They could only go off of certain evidence. Had i been on the jury I might of had to find him innocent based of the presented evidence. But as a person seeing all of the evidence out there, and the things he's said, I'm able to arrive at my own opinion.

Plus, I said his music doesn't forgive his molestation. Not that his music wasn't good or that he wasn't an icon. But I will never hear his music again without being reminded that he was sick, and didn't get help.

He could have gotten therapy, as all child molesters should. But he didn't. He didn't think it was a problem.

I think that you're having been molested so much makes it difficult. This is just a theory, I'm not a psychologist and I don't mean to impose on you, but you may be identifying that it's "normal" or "okay." But it isn't. Anyone who molests a child should be put to justice and through therapy or in a support group.

...It's nothing personal if the person didn't do anything to you specifically....

I'm sorry, but I fight for the rights of children to grow up without being molested. If you think it's okay to let a molester get away with it because it wasn't done to "you specifically" then there would be a whole bunch of serial molesters still out there.

I don't like Nancy Grace as a person... but what she does is important. And what prosecutors do in the name of children's rights is important.

I don't forgive molestation, and I don't believe anyone should. I'm sorry that you as a molested person don't feel the same way.

I couldn't find specific statistics either, but I don't believe yours at the moment. Please let me know if you find something solid, I'm very interested.

This study shows that 4.8% of males were molested, and 7.7% of females. That's 1 in 20 males, and 1 in 11 or 12 females. This study is probably skewed, because it would be mostly upper or middle class kids in a college population.

It's not being anal. It's being correct. You put in quotes and italics. You acted as if I had used the word certainty. Where did you get that word? If not the film about the topic of child molestation in the same light, that used that word quite famously.

With the information I have at my disposal, yes, I am certain.

You did put words in my mouth. You just put the word certainty in my mouth, and I never used the word "certainty". That slip makes me think you're only doubting me because you might have watched the movie Doubt, and now you might think this is the same situation. If that's the case, it isn't the same situation and you need to check yourself.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/michaeljackson/010605jacksonhouse.html

You just don't have all that stuff, and the accusations, without something nasty going on. No sane person does that! It's wrong and sick. That's how I know he did it. If you'd like to come up with anything that says that crap was planted, or something else, I might be able to change my mind. But he was a whack job child molester as my opinion stands today. Nothing I have seen has said otherwise.

Well the point is that difference in opinion is what this debate is about.

So really we could both just take our own opinions and shoove them. Because yours doesn't matter to me, and mine doesn't matter to you. So I think were done.

Again, I don't want anyone to be a pedophile. Of corse I wish he was innocent. His creep factor is a big deal. It's the creepy things he said and did with children in broad daylight, along with accusations brought on by the now older children that are what I call creepy.

And again, you continue to tell me what I believe, which is false. I have asked before, and I will ask again for you to not do that. My opinion is not based on a disbelief in the court system. Yes, the courts make mistakes. I believe that juries have far less evidence than is actually available. They are bound to make decisions only on evidence brought to them in the trial. If I had been a jury member I might of had to find him innocent based on that evidence alone. But I wasn't. I can base my opinion on the things I know to be true. That includes things not presented in court. Like what he said about how beautiful it is to tale children to bed with you, the secret doors to rooms that seemed to be set up to molest boys, the testemony of the families and boys who were traumatized by him. I believe them. I feel for them. And now I'm glad for them that he is dead.

Courts have to abide by certain rules. Innocent until prooven guilty. That keeps us protected from false imprisonment. But it also keeps a lot of criminals free too. I think that was the case with Michael Jackson.

If you reply to this, do not misinterpret my words for your own benefit. I won't take it anymore. And also, when you accused me of it, I had simple states that charity does not forgive pedophilia, not that you had said that.