"why not three men and four women. Or fathers and daughters ..."
Ah! See, now if you were true to Christian teachings, you would support that because clearly that is Biblical traditional families. Why do you question the morality of Moses? (He had sex with not one but both of his daughters.) Why do you question the entire human race from a Biblical perspective? (Noah; Adam & Eve).
I'm not asking anyone to "approve" my lifestyle. I'm demanding as a citizen to be treated equally, "which I have no problem with" because IT IS ABOUT inheritance and tax benefits.
There is no federal recognition of a legal same sex marriage even in those states that allow it. Equal taxation is denied. No one is asking you to change your precious "traditions and institutions". Stop acting as if you are some poor put upon person because God forbid, some human being that you don't approve of is happy. Get a life.
Let me ask you this. Do you revere your marriage so much that you have you marriage license framed and hanging in your living room, signed by everyone at your wedding? Do you keep that prominent and show it off to everyone as a testament to your commitment to another human being, whom you love greatly? Do you pass by it every day, smile, think deeply, and reaffirm that love?
No? Well, I have two gay friends who do, and they've been together for about 20 years. How dare you suggest that you somehow get to have a say in their love and commitment for each other. Who the hell asked you? No one passed judgment on your love, why do you defy Jesus himself by judging others.
So let me get this straight. As long as a majority of people oppose someone else's right to something they themselves enjoy, that wronged person has to wait until the majority get with the program, and then and only then, does he get to enjoy what everyone else is enjoying? Huh?
The religious right can and do believe anything they want, no matter how stupid and obnoxious and irrational it is. They can and do teach their kids whatever nonsense they care to.
My right to equal protection under the law - my right to enjoy the same tax breaks, visitation rights, and property inheritance rights everyone else has - does not in any way interfere with that. How do you conceivably justify this denial of my rights under the same constitution and under the same tax code, with whatever minor challenge to someone's religious beliefs there could possibly be?
This is like denying rights to African Americans or Hispanics because the KKK has issues with it. That wouldn't stand for a second. Why am I any different?
No one is challenging any one's right to their beliefs here. But as a taxpaying American, I most certainly DO demand the same rights as you enjoy.
Let's be perfectly straight here: no one is asking a church to perform a same sex wedding. Most people who are gay wouldn't step foot in a church to begin with because there is so much hate there. As Ghandi said, "I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. They are so much unlike him."
There are plenty of Christian churches that love and accept us that no one would ever bother for one moment thinking about going into one of the palaces of hate that so many churches have become. So how in heaven's name does that interfere with your religion?
My own Episcopalian church couldn't possibly be a more warm and inviting place for gay and lesbian people. I love it there. It has allowed me to grow and thrive as a Christian. The old Baptist church I was raised in was a spiritual killing field. What kind of idiot would go back there for any reason?
I can deeply respect you for that, and rest assured I return the favor as a devout Christian.
Speaking only as a Christian, because that is my faith, all I have to say is that that my faith speaks to me, guides me, leads me. Doesn't say a thing about you. In other words, it's a private conversation between me and Him, about what I need to do. Right now we ain't talking 'bout nobody else.
That's up to YOU to have that conversation with Him, or not, as you are moved or not moved. And I have no opinion as to whether my religion is right for you or not. That's a matter of respect for me, for you, and for my faith.
I agree with you 100% about the "highly religious." The best thing many of them could do would be to shut up and sit down because they haven't got a clue what they're talking about. Ahem. Rest assured, much of what you hear from the most strident is their worship of the god money, not the God Yahweh.
Actually, Hell isn't some burning in agony thing. The concept is simple. You can accept God's love, and He will forgive all of your sins and errors as any good loving parent would. Or, you can not accept, which means you have chosen to be estranged from God. That's what Hell is - not eternal punishment, eternal separation from God.
There's a really great author you might want to explore on this kind of stuff - Bishop John Spong of the Episcopal church. He's written about a dozen or more books along these lines, the best being Rescuing the Bible from Fundamentalism and Sins of Scripture. Wow, talk about kicking * and taking no prisoners!
From Spong, I've learned that what I read in the Bible isn't particularly what was actually in the Bible. Wait! What? Huh!?
You're dealing with multiple translations of ancient texts, most of which were oral traditions for thousands of years before they were ever committed to writing. This is one of the reasons you can get something as simple as this concept of estrangement and have it warped into this idea that the televangelists love to throw around that God hates every fiber in your being and just can't wait to have you burn in agony for all eternity. That's trash.
Hope that helps a bit. Try this little experiment. Go to a book store, and grab two or three different versions of the Bible off the shelf. Try King James, New Revised, and say Living Bible. Then pick a verse, and compare it among the three. This will knock your socks off. You'll find entire paragraphs added and subtracted between versions. That is not the "word of God."
